Please say a prayer: 20mph in Wales

[Elgraman]

Well, there was a very surreal drive on 20mph day.
1) Driving over to a building merchants, in the opposite direction, you had the obligatory control freak, probably reveling in having some sort of 'power' over others for the first time in his life, traveling at ~ 20mph with a convoy behind. Anyway, he flashes me and gesticulates (very safe, huh, probably should rethink if he should be driving lol) at me in disgust, traveling in the opposite direction, presumably as I was traveling at 30mph......which is the speed limit for the particular road as it is an exempt one

2) I get loon overtaken while traveling at 20mph (just after a corner in a 20mph road)......only for the same 'driver' to do ~ 35mph, 40 max, as well as braking on any curve which frightened him, in a wide, two lane 60 zone a little further up

I think the adage that it's the driver, not the speed limit which causes problems may well be true, but it's more a case of one driver fault is simply replaced by another form of driver problem. I mean, I've driven where the loon overtake occurred maybe a thousand times before, without a whiff of such practice.
.

 

[home.ed.rocks]

We're just not a rebel nation.
We will comply, that's civilisation.
Only thing to do is embrace it with a smile.
I look forward to the guaranteed 1 minute arrival of the autonomous Uber pod that charges 10p/mile and is 100 times safer than a human driven dodgem.
Once they are in, up running and proven then our transportation speeds can finally ramp up safely.
Now going back to sleep.
Isn't sleep apnea wonderful.
Goodnight.

Sounds horrific, I'm more of an errant

 

[home.ed.rocks]

Sounds horrific, I'm more of an errant

 

[Cato Fong]

I understand the safety issue but I see they've admitted that emissions will actually go up through being forced to drive inefficiently in low gear. A bit like demonising diesels when Euro 6 is clean and emits less CO2 than petrol. Bring back the Green Cross Code man.....

 

[JohnK]

Mind, where there are humps the speed limit is 20mph anyway

Generally they are on 20mph roads but I know roads with 30 mph speed limits which have speed bumps.
I believe the legislation states that speed bumps can only be placed on roads which have a speed limit of 30 or less.

Having attended a speed awareness course just last week I found this thread particularly interesting. One thing they showed us which stuck in my mind was a test where a car travelling at 20mph did an emergency brake. Same car same driver same conditions travelling at 21mph was still doing 8mph at the point it stopped at 20. Quite a sobering thought.
I dislike blanket 20 limits and really didn't expect the course to change my driving...but it has!

 

[Colin Booth]

News to me!

I used to think some of the speed limits in Wales were there mostly to generate money (particularly from tourists). There's a town not far from Bala on a major route that has a built up area where you'd expect the 30mph limit so would drive at 30 and then a long widening stretch of road without street lights going up a fairly steep hill where you'd probably expect a 40 limit... except there was no 40 sign and you'd still be in a 30 limit, and there'd always be a speed trap there. Of course there's no excuse, you'd be wrong to presume a speed limit of 40 when it's still 30 even if you and other safe drivers could reasonably expect it to be 40... So on the one side of the coin the speed trap was a bit of foul play, a reasonable driver expects 40 to be a safe speed and the trap is there to catch them.. and on the other side of the coin it was a lesson for even safe / seasoned drivers not to make presumptions about speed limits.

There isn't really an excuse for not being able to maintain 20mph. But I agree that sticking to 20 will mean a lot more speedo checking and probably checking out of totty than driving at 30 and 20 will use more fuel than 30 (so not good from an emissions view). But on the other hand hitting a pedestrian at 20 won't do them as much damage as hitting them at 30. Cars are a lot better at stopping these days but there are a lot more cars on the roads these days and drivers don't get any better, in fact it seems to me general driving standards are going down. I'd like to see speed limits on motorways go up... Apparently motorways were designed with 90mph driving in mind in 1960's tech cars (you could expect to safely make any turn on a motorway safely in a car designed in the 60s at 90mph). But we're not going to see speed limits of motorways raised while we have people who stick to the middle lane etc, maybe it would happen if they demonstrated German like lane discipline. Originally there were no speed limits on motorways, drivers were trusted to decide what was safe themselves. I have to agree that unless the general standard of driving improves the 70 speed limit on motorways is about right because it prevents the numpties driving faster. But if it were not for the numpties and standards we could have Autobahn style motorways without speed limits. It's the numpties that are the problem but nobody dare address the numpty driver issue because they know they'd find the numpty drivers all fell into a few categories.

We'd need to see some real stats before knowing if the 20mph limits in Wales made sense. I might understand if they have fatalities during busy tourist times. But I do acknowledge the point about pedestrians being more likely to jump out in front of traffic in 20 zones.

Never lived in Wales but done a fair bit of driving there. There are plenty towns which, if they were in less mountainous areas, might have had a bypass built around them... but the terrain probably means a bypass isn't viable, so all the traffic even on major routes has to go through the towns.

I've only driven around 150 miles today, passed maybe 6 middle lane hoggers on motorways, pretty much cut up by a foreign looking gent doing his Scalextric type lane change on a dual carriageway. I reckon middle lane hoggers probably think they're going to take it easy and just stick in the middle lane on a 3 lane motorway, less 'stress' for them driving and won't cause any problems because anyone who wants to overtake can use the outside lane. To me they're the idiots who don't notice or care about what's going on behind them, cars approaching on the inside lane who have to change lane twice to pass them and probably have to adjust their speed because others are already going past them in the middle and outside lanes. It wouldn't matter if they hogged the middle lane and nothing was catching them up or needing to overtake but they demonstrate either ignorance or disregard for motorway rules and courtesy by sticking to the middle lane when stuff is catching then up even from way in the distance behind them. I'd like to see Police pull middle lane hoggers. I've even been towing a trailer so limited to 60mph and the 2 inside lanes, caught up to someone hogging the middle lane at 50mph and they still didn't move onto the inside lane. I'd make drivers who passed their test in most other countries have to pass a test in the UK before being allowed to drive here long term, including Commonwealth countries (not that all of the drivers from all Commonwealth countries are bad, Aussies no problem lol). I'd be happy to allow exceptions to drivers from some countries e.g. Australia / Germany but not all countries. But that wouldn't be very PC of me lol. There seems to be whole areas that now have their own rules of the road. A few weeks ago I flagged down a fella who was driving the wrong way up a main one way street in Doncaster and told him "You can't come this way mate it's one way and you're going the wrong way".. I don't know if Police would have pulled him or been worried about being accused of being racist if they'd pulled him.

It’s perfectly legal to safely undertake.

 

[Colin Booth]

Modern stopping vs the 40 year old Highway Code guide.

 

[Colin Booth]

Results of the video if you wanna save 4 minutes.

 

[Nevillerover]

I tried to find it on the toob but failed. I only vaguely remember it, just that the line 'wash my mouth out with soap and water' was used repetetively.

One of the few lines that would be repeatable here.

 

[Nevillerover]

I tried to drive at 20 today as an experiment, tricky unless you use snow mode.
Regardless, it is so tedious? We need to pray that no one tries to get that through in England. (I think Scotland will go for it to demonstrate their independence-ability.
Still, we can attract speed tourists to England. “Come to England and experience the thrill of driving your car at 30 mph and it’s totally legal!”

 

[Magnu]

My estate has been 20MPH for a while, I don't mind it and don't have any problems keeping within the limit.

 

[P4ddy]

It’s perfectly legal to safely undertake.

When the traffic in the outer lane is traveling slower than the lane of traffic you are in I:e very slow queuing motorway traffic. General undertaking isn't.

 

[Elgraman]

Another lovely one in 20mph today, twice in a day
Driving, taking the dog out along a *still* 30mph road (it has an exemption), and a male, doing ~ 20mph on the other side of the road (remember, in an exempt 30 zone, maybe he should rethink whether he should be driving), lowers/fumbles his window and shouts across at me (I think) 'it's a 20, t**t'.
So that's a 'driver' 'driving' with a line of traffic behind him at 20mph in an exempt 30 zone, calls me a 't**t' because I'm travelling at 30mph in a 30mph zone.

For completeness, I've never been called a 't**t' by a passing motorist in X amount of years on that (or any!) road.
#replaceoneproblemwithanother


Welcome to Wales guys

 

[Elgraman]

My estate has been 20MPH for a while, I don't mind it and don't have any problems keeping within the limit.

It's not an estate where I am- it's a country

 

[thingonaspring]

Have had 20 around my way for years now, having moved from North London to Kingston way. Probably not the best place to be picking up an Eglrand in hindsight.

 

[Magnu]

It's not an estate where I am- it's a country

And a very nice one too.
My first experience of driving over a crest to see a sea of cloud in the valley below which I decended into.

 

[Colin Booth]

When the traffic in the outer lane is traveling slower than the lane of traffic you are in I:e very slow queuing motorway traffic. General undertaking isn't.

If you don’t change speed, and don’t move out of middle lane to undertake, then move back out, it isn’t undertaking, it is maintaining speed.

 

[Nevillerover]

I tried to find it on the toob but failed. I only vaguely remember it, just that the line 'wash my mouth out with soap and water' was used repetetively.

Father and son Sketch.

 

[LeStempy]

 

[RuskinStreet]

Of course lots of you know, 20mph is now the default speed in Wales, on 'most' roads which have been previously 30mph zones. I say 'most' as there are a number of roads which individual local Welsh Councils have used the 'exception' clause and kept a particular road at 30mph (typically a 30mph major through road with lots of traffic).
Out this morning and it's a total nightmare. 'Lead' drivers doing 18mph max, with uber tailgates behind. Previously sparse queues at traffic lights are now 15 cars long. WORSE, is that not many people have done what I've done (and which isn't exactly hard)- looked which roads are being kept at 30mph- hence you have uninformed, paranoid people doing 20mph in what is STILL a 30mph road. WORSE again, you have national speed limit 60 zones (safe and wide, two lane twisites), with idiots doing 20 in them. I mean, if you were on your driving test doing 20 in a 60 zone, we all know what the test result would be.
I could say if you live in Wales and voted Labour, this is what you voted for, but I won't

Doesn't help that they haven't changed the effing road signs! You can't look up every local authorities when planning a trip into Wales, really can't blame people for being cautious. Agree with the massive queues today though @Elgraman! I have two routes home, one across town with uncertain speed limits and one down the bypass (now with average speed cameras and a 50 limit FFS). The queue to get on the bypass was horrendous, looked like everyone avoided the cross-town route. Czar Mark Dickford and his unintended consequences........