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Please say a prayer: 20mph in Wales

I cover North Wales as part of my work. This 20mph will be really annoying. I get into a lot of the rural areas and love the roads, especially Snowdonia.
The average speed cameras, and the camera vans not so much 😡
 
Yeah it's bloody annoying the 20mph speed limit. They've enrolled it out in mostly all the roads on the Wirral. I can ride faster on my MTB. 🤣
 
News to me!

I used to think some of the speed limits in Wales were there mostly to generate money (particularly from tourists). There's a town not far from Bala on a major route that has a built up area where you'd expect the 30mph limit so would drive at 30 and then a long widening stretch of road without street lights going up a fairly steep hill where you'd probably expect a 40 limit... except there was no 40 sign and you'd still be in a 30 limit, and there'd always be a speed trap there. Of course there's no excuse, you'd be wrong to presume a speed limit of 40 when it's still 30 even if you and other safe drivers could reasonably expect it to be 40... So on the one side of the coin the speed trap was a bit of foul play, a reasonable driver expects 40 to be a safe speed and the trap is there to catch them.. and on the other side of the coin it was a lesson for even safe / seasoned drivers not to make presumptions about speed limits.

There isn't really an excuse for not being able to maintain 20mph. But I agree that sticking to 20 will mean a lot more speedo checking and probably checking out of totty than driving at 30 and 20 will use more fuel than 30 (so not good from an emissions view). But on the other hand hitting a pedestrian at 20 won't do them as much damage as hitting them at 30. Cars are a lot better at stopping these days but there are a lot more cars on the roads these days and drivers don't get any better, in fact it seems to me general driving standards are going down. I'd like to see speed limits on motorways go up... Apparently motorways were designed with 90mph driving in mind in 1960's tech cars (you could expect to safely make any turn on a motorway safely in a car designed in the 60s at 90mph). But we're not going to see speed limits of motorways raised while we have people who stick to the middle lane etc, maybe it would happen if they demonstrated German like lane discipline. Originally there were no speed limits on motorways, drivers were trusted to decide what was safe themselves. I have to agree that unless the general standard of driving improves the 70 speed limit on motorways is about right because it prevents the numpties driving faster. But if it were not for the numpties and standards we could have Autobahn style motorways without speed limits. It's the numpties that are the problem but nobody dare address the numpty driver issue because they know they'd find the numpty drivers all fell into a few categories.

We'd need to see some real stats before knowing if the 20mph limits in Wales made sense. I might understand if they have fatalities during busy tourist times. But I do acknowledge the point about pedestrians being more likely to jump out in front of traffic in 20 zones.

Never lived in Wales but done a fair bit of driving there. There are plenty towns which, if they were in less mountainous areas, might have had a bypass built around them... but the terrain probably means a bypass isn't viable, so all the traffic even on major routes has to go through the towns.

I've only driven around 150 miles today, passed maybe 6 middle lane hoggers on motorways, pretty much cut up by a foreign looking gent doing his Scalextric type lane change on a dual carriageway. I reckon middle lane hoggers probably think they're going to take it easy and just stick in the middle lane on a 3 lane motorway, less 'stress' for them driving and won't cause any problems because anyone who wants to overtake can use the outside lane. To me they're the idiots who don't notice or care about what's going on behind them, cars approaching on the inside lane who have to change lane twice to pass them and probably have to adjust their speed because others are already going past them in the middle and outside lanes. It wouldn't matter if they hogged the middle lane and nothing was catching them up or needing to overtake but they demonstrate either ignorance or disregard for motorway rules and courtesy by sticking to the middle lane when stuff is catching then up even from way in the distance behind them. I'd like to see Police pull middle lane hoggers. I've even been towing a trailer so limited to 60mph and the 2 inside lanes, caught up to someone hogging the middle lane at 50mph and they still didn't move onto the inside lane. I'd make drivers who passed their test in most other countries have to pass a test in the UK before being allowed to drive here long term, including Commonwealth countries (not that all of the drivers from all Commonwealth countries are bad, Aussies no problem lol). I'd be happy to allow exceptions to drivers from some countries e.g. Australia / Germany but not all countries. But that wouldn't be very PC of me lol. There seems to be whole areas that now have their own rules of the road. A few weeks ago I flagged down a fella who was driving the wrong way up a main one way street in Doncaster and told him "You can't come this way mate it's one way and you're going the wrong way".. I don't know if Police would have pulled him or been worried about being accused of being racist if they'd pulled him.
 
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I understand, from what I've heard, the whole point of the 20 MPH thing is to reduce accidents, cars hitting people I assume, rather than cars colliding. I can't speak for Wales, but in my lifetime of driving (so 28 years ish) I've only ever witnessed two accidents in 30 MPH zones, both times it was a kid that ran out into the road without looking. They were both fine, don't worry.

I'm all for things that make sense.. but surely it would be more logical to educate people / kids, rather than annoy and inconvenience millions of people, including Ryan Reynolds.

I hate the few 20MPH roads in the England (though understand why some are).. and to be honest I find I spend more time watching the speedo than the road when I'm on them, as there is usually a camera.

I really hope they don't introduce this beyond Wales.. sorry Wales.

I wonder how much money they will make out of this.. the Tyne Tunnel in the NE made millions on fines in a few weeks when they took away the ability to pay cash. I know I was one that was fined. Annoying really as I went with the purpose of paying, with cash, like I had done all my life.. but that option isn't available.. and the rules (at the time) were not obvious. I will stop now before I start ranting.. like when they add speed humps on a road, or 'traffic calming', when the roads all around are crumbling! Ahh, must stop now. Ahh.
 
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We've recently had major changes to the city centre and the ring road in Preston. It's not actually a ring road, but that's what it's called (I dunno, it's Preston...)
A result, aside from some incredibly strange design decisions which WILL lead to accidents, is that the traffic lights are now programmed to hinder progress. They actually HOLD traffic in place, trapping cars between light changes.
There are some truly sick minds out there 😞
 
Where I live in North Cardiff we were a 20mph phase 1 trial zone from May 2022, so we have already had over a year of it. In general it gets ignored to an extent, and everyone tends to drive around 25mph (even the buses and the police).I suspect they know this and assume a couple of mph off the current average is probably safer overall.

It obviously makes no difference to the type of driver that did 80mph down Caerphilly Mountain at 2am when it was a 30mph zone. They will still do it whatever the limit. But I suspect over time it will get more normal. When I first got a motorbike at 18 I probably drove at 50mph everywhere, as I got older, got a car, some points on my locense, I made sure I stuck to the speed limits. Then we got a 20mph zone outside and we are all rebelling against it at the moment, but with time we will just comply and get used to it. To be honest I just stick the cruise control on (but obviously not in the Elgrand, as its broken!)
We did drive to the beach today for a walk (ogmore) and the only 20mph zones on my journey were from my house to the motorway (as it has been for over a year) and the last 20 yards before I parked up, My trip to work will be completely the same as it was last week too. I think many people will notice that they don't actually drive on 30mph roads that much, or just go another way. If I wanted to go to Cardiff Bay I would have previously driven straight down through the city. but will just use the 70mph bypass link road from the motorway instead now.
 
We're just not a rebel nation.
We will comply, that's civilisation.
Only thing to do is embrace it with a smile.
I look forward to the guaranteed 1 minute arrival of the autonomous Uber pod that charges 10p/mile and is 100 times safer than a human driven dodgem.
Once they are in, up running and proven then our transportation speeds can finally ramp up safely.
Now going back to sleep.
Isn't sleep apnea wonderful.
Goodnight.
 
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Mark76e said:
We've recently had major changes to the city centre and the ring road in Preston. It's not actually a ring road, but that's what it's called (I dunno, it's Preston...)
A result, aside from some incredibly strange design decisions which WILL lead to accidents, is that the traffic lights are now programmed to hinder progress. They actually HOLD traffic in place, trapping cars between light changes.
There are some truly sick minds out there 😞
Click to expand...
Next up on Preston's council agenda....Clean Air Zone/ULEZ to combat the appalling air quality in the city centre....🤔

Just picking up on something @Lpgc mentioned about not raising the speed limits on motorways due to numpty drivers.....sadly, speed limits don't apply to numpty drivers. They come in all shapes, sizes, colours and car brands....had a battered Hyundai i20 trying to do me doggy style down the m61 the other week, even when I moved over after overtaking a few HGVs engaging in their own elephant race.
Middle lane hoggers - because of numpty drivers, you find yourself stuck there sometimes for longer than is strictly necessary as there's the numpties doing 100 in convey (thrusting exec types, Audi/Range rover and Tesla owners/beauty salon afficianado types) in the outer lane and then the ones who suddenly remember there's an accelerator by their right foot as you start your overtake....."oh you own a BMW do you? I'm not letting you pass me in your Gerry-mobile, you Tory voting b*st**d"....
It's ",this is my spot on the motorway" and a sense of entitlement above others all the way.

20mph limit will surely increase accidents - anyone who's attempted to drive down the prom in Blackpool with its "pedestrian" focus since the removal of all the railings can see that - people just step out whereever and whenever they please and saunter across as if browsing an art gallery.🤔
 
There used to be public information films teaching kids how to cross the road. Surely a social media campaign targeted at kids on their phones would be cheaper than what Wales has spent?
 
I think what is scarier, and hasn't been widely communicated, is the changes to UK- wide sentencing guidelines when 'vulnerable road users' (ie cyclists and pedestrians) are injured. Many of us were brought up on the notion that accidents were accidents, and if you didn't do anything wrong justice would prevale. However, that isn't the case anymore. A friends sister hit a cyclist at a junction whilst on holiday in North Wales. She was joining a fast A Road from a side road with limited visibility. Unfamiliar surroundings, not been drinking, no adverse factors, just pulled out and didn't see cyclist. She got a large fine, licence removed and a 3 month suspended prison sentence for dangerous driving. She now has to get her children into a different school as she can't get them there. However, at least she isn't a registered professional like her sister and me, who would lose our registration and therefore our careers immediately with no appeal for getting a custodial level conviction. It prevents you from showing 'fitness to practice'. It has been a wake up call to us all. Maybe driving slower might be a good thing if it helps me keep my family fed!!
 
I was reading an advanced motoring book before and it said the amount of hits due solely because of speed pails into insignificance compared to non-speed related driver error.
So, I wonder how many of the 'statistics' of accidents they use to push a policy were actually totally due to speed, and how many were due to, say,a muppet 'driving' on his or her mobile phone?
In connection, I wonder how many hits were primarily due to a pedestrian error- walking out between parked cars, walking across a road looking at a cat doing 11 meows a second on ticktok?
 
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