E51 The E51 Catalytic Converter Problem

[WalnutTreeArt]

Cat back usually means everything behind the front cats.

Thanks @LeStempy that makes sense. I'll see if I can find out if the primary cats have been removed. If they have I reckon it'll be a reasonable van.

 

[LeStempy]

Unless it's on lpg then unlikely it is without fronts.

 

[manikm303]

I don't know if any one has seen a copy of the official Nissan recall notice but here it is.
Due to me copying and pasting to Google translate, it has come out in a vertical format, but I'm sure you will all get the gist !






Recall report number
3225
Recall start date
September 13, 2013

Structure, apparatus or performance condition and its cause that it is deemed to be in a standard nonconformity state
Because the program of the engine control computer is inappropriate, the intake air amount of the engine may be insufficient at the time of deceleration by accelerator off from the time of high engine speed, the fuel is discharged without burning in the engine, the exhaust gas purification on the front side By burning with a catalyst, the inside of the catalyst becomes hot and the catalyst may be damaged. As a result, abnormal noise is generated by the fragments of the broken catalyst, and if the rear catalyst is clogged, acceleration failure occurs. In the worst case, engine stall may occur after engine malfunction.
Content of improvement
In addition to modifying the engine control program to countermeasure specifications, check the damage condition of the catalyst, and replace the catalyst (4 pieces) with a new one if there is an abnormality.
· Since the vehicles that are not covered are included in the range of the chassis number included in the recalled car,
Please contact the dealer you purchased.
· The production period of the recalled car does not match the time of purchase.
· Chassis number is printed on car verification.

Model
Common name
Recalled cars
Range of included chassis number
Recalled cars
production period
Recalled cars
Number
Remarks
UA-E 51
CBA-E 51
Elgrand
E51-000037
~ E 51 -15 6623
April 10, 2002
~ November 1, 2006
74,443 units

UA-NE 51
CBA-NE 51
NE 51 - 000040
~ NE 51 - 154531
April 10, 2002
~ November 2, 2006
47,422 units
(Total 4 types)
(1 vehicle model in total)
(Scope of whole production period)
April 10, 2002 - November 2, 2006
Total 121,865

ok, go easy on me, BUT with this in mind, is there any evidence of a 2007 or newer E51 having the CAT issue - i.e why does it only state 2002-2006 models. just wondered.

perhaps, did they change the CATs - higher quality core or something ?

also, on the basis the passenger rear CAT is easy to access, would it help to do just that one? or not realy?

thanks!!

 

[CaptRossexplores]

My interpretation of this is :
02 - 06 vehicles had a software issue where in some circumstances unburnt fuel could pass through the engine, this fuel then literally exploded when it came in contact with the ceramic cat, you and I call this a back-fire from the exhaust. The exploding fuel on the cat now blew a little piece of ceramic off the whole cat and the exhaust gas then tries to blow this ceramic dust and bits down the rest of the exhaust pipe, over time the bits and dust block the remaining cat, block the down stream cat (secondary cat) and cause a huge amount of back pressure choking the exhaust and pressurising the engine in the wrong direction, causing all kinds of mayhem to the internals often destroying the engine itself.
There is no way of telling from looking at the outside if you have this problem or if you are half way there etc. A change in cat doesn’t fix it, it’s all down to software where in certain conditions the fuel ‘may’ enter the exhaust and burn there causing the damage, the recall corrected the software to make sure fuel couldn’t get into the exhaust. 02 to 06 had the issue, 07 onwards had improved software so only 02 to 06 would benefit from the update.
If it has been modified or decored etc, you may be able to see some cut lines or weld marks usually on the secondary cats and usually on top of the can suggesting it has been modified. Only suggests mind but a good indicator, an MOT man would not like to see that but hey.
Doing just the secondary cat helps on the assumption that IF you have the problem the pieces falling off the front cat can simply blow through the exhaust the can’t block a second cat that isn’t there, the front cat can still block over time but the higher temperature in the front cat usually means the damage presents as dust in that cat and blows through———usually. It can block the front but that is rarer.
Please note, not all 02 to 06 vehicles will definitely have the problem, only those that meet the conditions enough times to actually create the damage in the first place, it’s a bit of a game of chance. If the vehicle has seen a lot of high revs and sudden lift offs of the throttle then in time you may see this condition, if not…….maybe you won’t ?
And that’s the game we play.

 

[manikm303]

from reading that, at face value it seems that 07 plate onwards are not so susceptible to the issue? which i dont understand. The software you talk about i presume is nothing to do with the fuel gauge recall, the software you mention...was that some kind of ECU update?

 

[JohnK]

All cats will fail in time. AA/RAC put 10 year/100k mile life expectancy...see here

What is a catalytic converter? | RAC Drive

A catalytic converter is one of the most important components of your car. But how does it work? And what happens if it goes wrong?

www.rac.co.uk

Any car with a quad cat system will be susceptible as when (not if) the front cats eventually fail the rears could then block.
Without the recall being completed the risk of pre 2007 suffering  early failure would be greater. The recall wouldnt stop them eventually failing.
Best advice is to address this issue before the fronts fail. This applies to 2007 and later Elgrands as much as the earlier models.
Read this for more info

LIST OF ACTIONS REGARDING E51/E52 CATALYTIC CONVERTER ISSUES

Having 're read this entire thread ( https://forum.elgrandoc.uk/threads/forward-cats-need-removing-and-the-do-not-remove-rear-cats-debate.18398/ ) again this morning here are my conclusions and the options available of which there are at least half a dozen. Rough costs are an estimate on...

forum.elgrandoc.uk

 

[manikm303]

thanks @JohnK

 

[manikm303]

i spoke to a company today - they said, they dont de-core completely - they drill through the hole with a small drill bit, then get bigger and bigger to cover the whole circumference -. surely thats no good at all....there must be loads left to get rid of, and loose ....?

 

[JohnK]

i spoke to a company today - they said, they dont de-core completely - they drill through the hole with a small drill bit, then get bigger and bigger to cover the whole circumference -. surely thats no good at all....there must be loads left to get rid of, and loose ....?

That probably takes longer than removing the cat completely
A trip to @Winchester is well worth it.